As a follow up to the discussion on immigration in August, we invited four panelists, whose careers provide unique perspectives on the topic, to our October 8 meeting. They presented some ground-truths to kick off the meeting, followed by Q&A. The panelists were: Yoon Jung Park, Georgetown University, specializing in global migration; Theresa Cardinal Brown, Bipartisan Policy Center; Andre Barnes, Numbers USA and Elizabeth Chan, Immigration Attorney, Torres and Sanchez. Some things were obvious from the presentations: Immigration is a complex issue and there is no quick fix. And, while many members of Congress have good intentions, they do not seem to be motivated to tackle this problem other than making it an election issue.
Below are some of the salient points covered by the panelists, and brief Q&As.
Yoon Jung Park:
Human migration has been a human condition for aeons
Today’s migration is seen primarily as people from the ‘south’ migrating to countries in the ‘north’ but is in fact more likely to be within regions, and from rural to urban areas. Flows are multi-directional, sometimes circular
We should differentiate between immigration and migration: immigration implies settling while migration implies intent to return. Migration can be voluntary or involuntary – the causes ranging from economic, civil unrest and wars, climate related changes, to human smuggling. And there are increasing number of environmental migrants.
Another distinction is regular versus irregular migrants: regular meaning seasonal or having temporary work permits; irregular meaning overstaying visas or entering without authorization
Keeping track of people flows is very difficult and impossible to get exact data
Immigration often gets painted in a negative light: that it’s from south to north (poor to rich) and it’s permanent
Many countries only count inbound and not focus on outbound migration
Recommended reading: “China’s Second Continent” – Howard French
Theresa Cardinal Brown:
130M people on the move right now
14.3% of current US population are foreign born, largest since 1910 (14.8%), compared to Australia 27%, Canada 25%, UK 16%, UAE 80%
By sheer numbers the US has about 47.8 million foreign-born (half of them Naturalized citizens), the largest in the world.
US official immigration policies have been passed in 1924, 1965, and 1996. Immigration laws are in desperate need to updating.
Approximately 3M are of ‘indeterminate’ status
Asylum is explicitly legal even if the initial border crossing is illegal; processing takes a long time.
Authorities are trying to channel asylum through ports of entry.
Americans are ambivalent about immigration, in part because we are not a country based on a homogeneous background. Three questions need to be asked in order to even come close to solving the immigration problem:
- When people feel a loss of control of any kind, they are more likely to call for controls from their government and look for blame.
- A large number of immigrants (especially those who are visually and culturally different) concentrated in small communities puts additional stress to the system. Previous immigrants has better support systems in the community to help assimilate; newer immigrants have less support system in the neighborhood.
- Since congress can’t agree on real resolutions, subsequent federal administrations are tweaking at the edges and creating confusion
Elizabeth Chan:
Congress hasn’t increased the capacity of the system despite greater numbers
Various Mandamus lawsuits (a legal action that compels a government agency to fulfill a law-mandated duty, usually when there are unreasonable delays in processing an application) are in play.
Conversations about border security are different from those about immigration more broadly
An inherent policy change has taken place (without actual legislation being passed), in that people who’ve been waiting for years and who would otherwise be considered at the front of the line, are being pushed to the back of the line
Personal experience says that hard-won gains by immigrants groups can be taken away at any moment, despite any amount of hard work and ‘success’
For many people, change has been too much too fast
HR2 Secure the Border Act of 2023 was a bipartisan effort but mandated certain requirements that were hard to implement, such as holding Mexico accountable.
In the 9/28Braver Angels National Panel Debate on immigration, Jim Robb noted a Gallup poll that indicated Americans want numbers of immigrants to be decreased. A distaste for immigration is higher post - 2021 than post - 2001. Some perceptions are related to high crime rates and the feeling that no one cares anymore
Reference reading: Future Shock – Alvin Toffler
Andre Barnes:
On perceptions of Americans, “Very few people realize that even our authentic channels of information, the press, the platform and the pulpit, in many instances, do not give us objective and unbiased truth” - MLK
We must keep working to avoid stereotypes and use primary sources where we can
Role of race and class are part of discussions about who gets to be an American
We should always keep in mind the impact of policies on people in the country first
Cant minimize social and institutional challenges brought by influxes of people (ref. to Springfield, OH and Chicago)
1 in 3 black males are out of the workforce now. We have the capacity to create/change our economy to include everyone if done carefully
Start with purpose – why do we have an immigration system?
Need more conversation on who and how many, and consider effects on different elements of the population. For example, how does immigration affect black Americans?
Following the 1924 Immigration Act limiting immigration, the US saw 40 years of economic growth – lots of black leaders saw the immigration cutback as needed to help get blacks assimilated into the north.
Need more control over funding – Chicago thought their recent crisis would be short-term, and spent accordingly; and now they need higher taxes to maintain services for a longer term than budgeted, creating friction.
Q&A:
Why does backlog seem mis-prioritized (i.e., people at border take a back seat to refugees trying to get in and jumping the line)?
Lots of mandamus lawsuits. Some want to flip the order.
- How much would the 2024 bipartisan Lankford/Murphy bill have helped, if implemented?
Theresa: would have helped – would have required a lot of resources and taken time but ultimately helped. Bipartisan bill had large tent (agencies in addition to elected officials)
Elizabeth: bill was not needed to address the issue of priority. Social media messaging could be used to dampen demand.
Andre: Negative aspect would codify some elements of uncertainty (like 5K daily quotes that sound optional). HR2 was a better bill; passed the House with some democratic support.
Theresa: Mexico has stepped up “remain in Mexico”. Mexico now has more leverage than ever before, including stronger protection in exchange for US acquiescence on some of the Mexican anti-democratic initiatives.
Why has public opinion turned from immigration? Is sociological change (i.e., first woman president) contributing about social order upheaval?
Theresa: loss of control
Yoon: One element is visibility – that can be race-based. how long does it take? Racial categories have changed over time; even without considering mixed race.
Andre: Need to consider not just the sociology of victims/populace, but also “powers that be” running programs
For asylum, does persecution need to be governmental or just crime?
Elizabeth: if the government can’t/won’t act against the other actor/force, and danger is imminent
Theresa: not triggered by generalized violence (acts of war, etc).
What would motivate Congress to move on the issue?
Theresa: Congress motivated by election – in-party factions make voting on short majorities challenging
Are older immigrants more pro-Trump, and why?
Elizabeth: Issue of cultural background, as one example, many other cultures remain more steeped in misogyny than mainstream US popular culture.
What should an immigration statement include?
Theresa: turn question back to Braver Angels workgroups
Do we have capacity / skills to fill job current and future job needs?
Andre: Americans would do jobs that immigrants would. 1 in 3 black males without HS diploma are out of the workforce. How to address employment for Americans (statement: businesses don’t trust low-skilled Americans to do the jobs but will take Americans). If we lost all skilled immigration, employers would lobby for better training
Theresa: diversity has benefits from idea generation/brainstorming. Population replacement is an issue; declining labor force. But immigration doesn’t solve other issues (and immigration might stress civic infrastructure but isn’t the cause of the problems). Electeds would rather claim to fix the issue rather than keep tweaking/studying. Canada (one of the most open nations) is also reacting to current global public sentiment with a toughening stance on immigration.
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